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Thriller writer Jack Carr drops back in to update Kevin on how his career is going and what he’s learned about treating his writing career as a business. This episode is filled with useful insights into the traditional world of publishing, with tips that can help any other—traditional or indie—with building a career aimed at success.



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   Kevin Tumlinson:          00:00                Hey slingers, welcome to another Wordslinger podcast. And today we've got a return guest with Jack Carr, the thriller writer. We're going to talk about his career and more coming up. Hey, you looking for a jump

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Announcer:                   00:37                It's the Wordslinger Podcast, where story matters. Build your brand. Write your book. Redefine who you are. It's all about the story here. What's yours? Now, here's the guy who invented pants optional—Kevin Tumlinson, the Wordslinger!

Kevin Tumlinson:          01:00                Hey everybody. This is Kevin Tumlinson, the Wordsligner. And I'm glad you joined me for another week of the words slinger podcast. I, um, I did something yesterday and, uh, some of you listening may be, uh, here. As a result of that, I, I reopened, uh, a mailing list that had gotten a little cold, um, interesting result with that by the way. Um, there were, there's like 46,000 people on that list and, uh, um, I had a maybe about 600 unsubscribes after a fairly cold, a start and, uh, about 70 people, uh, marked it as spam. That's not bad as, uh, as cold, you know, rewarming a list goes. But all that to say, um, you know, mailing lists, I preach mailing lists as being the most important marketing tool. If you're not, you don't have a mailing list, uh, you really need to consider, uh, how you can start building one. I've got some advice on that.

Kevin Tumlinson:          02:02                Uh, we're, I talk about this quite a bit in webinars and that sort of thing and an author, one-to-one coaching, um, which, uh, I've been doing through DDD recently. Uh, I'm going to start opening some of that up, uh, making that available to folks out who are coming in from outside the webinars. Uh, just because it's, I've seen that it's very useful, very, very helpful and very much in need. And I am mostly talking to folks who are what I call the, the will be authors. Uh, the folks who are just starting out, who don't either don't have a book who haven't published a book yet, and maybe they're still writing it and maybe they just haven't figured out what to do with it once it's written. Uh, but also the folks who are just Kinda, they've, they've published with it, they'll know what to do next.

Kevin Tumlinson:          02:49                They might even have more than one book. Uh, but they're finding its own was kind of stuck. So, uh, yeah. Oh, that's, that's, that's my car. That's my audience. That's you guys probably, although, and there's quite a few people in this audience that are actually quite successful, so I can congratulations on your success. I mean, that's, it's no small accomplishment. I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine today that, um, you know, success in this business is not, it's not hard, uh, when you look back at it, but it's a, it's a real grind. When you're trying to push your way up the hill, but once you get there, you look back and you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad. Uh, it doesn't seem bad. Uh, but that tends to make us forget that people who are just starting out are facing the same struggles we did and they haven't yet come across, you know, a process or a formula or a resource or whatever, uh, that, that will help them get over the hill.

Kevin Tumlinson:          03:44                So, um, that's what I'm trying to be. I'm trying to be the person who helps that author get over the hill, um, which I guess could be taken all kinds of ways, but I want to get you up your mountain. Let's put it that way. Uh, if you listen to the last episode, um, it was all about Fido, figure it out. If you haven't listened to that, go check that out. That is, um, my sort of, uh, guiding philosophy in life. One of them, uh, one of the principles by which I live, which is to take to own, you know, take responsibility, own your career, own your life, make decisions, take action. Uh, make adjustments but be responsible for your own, you know, success. Um, I still believe that. So go take a listen to that. Now I, uh, I'm fresh back from Orlando in the, uh, indie book fest.

Kevin Tumlinson:          04:33                A couple of the conferences. I've got some more stuff coming up. I'm going to be at Oklahoma City. If you're going to be at writer con in Oklahoma City, a DDD is going to be hosting a meet to greet at our offices there in OKC. Uh, and you can come check out and see where we work, what we do, how we do what we do. Uh, we're going to have drinks, we're going to have, uh, snacks. We're providing, uh, rides via lift from the hotel to the, um, to the offices and back again. So we're not gonna leave you stranded out there or you can drive if you are in Oklahoma area or are you just close enough that you could think you could drive? Uh, you can feel free to come on out. I think we can accommodate like 80 people at a time legally.

Kevin Tumlinson:          05:16                Uh, and if we nudge, nudge, wink, wink, we might be able to get a few more in there. So if you want to come see where the sausage is made, uh, it's a weird way to put anything. So it's just a weird thing. Um, anyway, so that is, uh, that is today. That is right now. So, and then of course after that, I've got a actually between now and rider con, I'm at the, uh, the Oklahoma Christian writers, uh, thing and after that his name at the end of September, uh, and then, uh, in November there is the, uh, 20 books, Vegas. So, uh, and I think there's some other stuff in between there, um, that I'm probably forgetting and I'm sorry. Uh, I will get reminders. Everything goes on the calendar, but, uh, everything goes in the calendar anyway. Um, today we're talking with Jack Carr about his new work, uh, in the, his continued success. We've, we had him on the, uh, show back in episode one 67. You can check that out, but for now, let's hop in. Let's hear what Jack Car's been up to and I'll stick around after. I'll see you on the other side.

Kevin Tumlinson:          06:28                There you are. Alright, we're in. There we go. Alright, let's do this man.

Jack Carr:                      06:34                All right.

Kevin Tumlinson:          06:37                Yeah, no, I, we'll be all right. I am a, I'm very excited to be talking to you though. I've been following what you're doing on Twitter and what, you know. Oh thanks. What you got going on? It's crazy. It's all of course new to me. I started recording already, so let's just jump in. Let's do it. Let's do it. Thanks for having me on. You got it, man. Good to see you. You're back. You're back. Let's just pretend like I already did an intro and a, and this one's it for folks listening. Things got off on a weird low track scheduling, a misunderstanding of some kind. And I'm still not sure what happened, but you're here. Jack's here. Everybody's here. Uh, so tell me, man, what is going on? Wait, so last time we saw you got a whole new book out.

Jack Carr:                      07:25                Yup. Hold new book out. Comes out July 30th. So things are getting a little crazy here with a two week book tour, taking off and then, uh, finishing up, uh, the third novel actually. And I'll start to edits on that here between now and October and probably in August here in the next couple of weeks.

Kevin Tumlinson:          07:41                Well, you are, if you keep putting books out at this rate, you're going to be an indie author dude.

Jack Carr:                      07:46                That's gotta be what's going on a year. So it's a rock on that track. And uh, you know, I love it. It's what I wanted to do since I was little kid other than being in the seal teams, you just feel so fortunate to be doing something I'm just this passionate, passionate about. And uh, yeah, I absolutely love every part of it. What I didn't anticipate though with things like this, uh, cause when I started out I thought I was just writing, right? You just read a book and then a publisher publishes it and you know, maybe someone put makes it a movie, but all you do is write, maybe do an interview or two. Um, I didn't expect that it would be like a small business and I think all that they, although I haven't started a small business except for this, um, I, it's like everything that would be involved in starting a small business from advertising and Co branding and marketing and branding and like all sort of thing, um, is involved in writing. Um, especially today when you have all the access to all these different platforms, um, and ways to kind of get the word out there that weren't available 20 plus years ago.

Kevin Tumlinson:          08:39                Right. I think it's definitely different than it was, you know, 10, 10 years ago, five years ago. Uh, you know, everybody, yeah. That idea, by the way, treating it like a business, that's something, you know, nobody wants to think of it that way. It was a surprise.

Jack Carr:                      08:56                Yeah. You know, and it's, I, I think I, you know, I didn't expect somebody to choose to really to do anything for me cause I never really thought about that part of it. So once, uh, once we started getting close to publication with the first book, it was like, Oh, you do what? You have to do a bunch of all these interviews and then, uh, I guess I need to do something. So I what I, I kind of put it thought of it in terms of, hey, they took a risk on me. Uh, my family supported me essentially taking a risk on me doing something that, uh, I really didn't think of it in these terms, but something that has a low probability of success. Um, I didn't think of it that way, of course, but, um, you know, I think I owe it to my family, to the publisher, to, uh, to myself to do everything I possibly can to, to make this venture a success.

Jack Carr:                      09:38                And so, uh, studying the landscape, seeing and how to, uh, how to leverage different things, leverage my background, um, uh, understand these different platforms and mediums to get the word out. Uh, I figured I owed that to everybody to see if I could do it the best that I could. So, uh, it's been a busy year. I bet. I bet. What is, so how, what are some of the things that have changed for you since, uh, since a year ago? Ah, I, I found out what Instagram was. Uh, I found out my publicist is like, he apologizes to me all the time. He's like, ah, I'm so sorry for dragging you into this world. And I found out what filters are and what stories are and how to do a, you know, swipe up to this and that and uh, you know, all it's, it's managing all of that.

Jack Carr:                      10:24                Um, really without having anybody else to, to help you out. Um, you know, the publisher, publicist, uh, um, and I have a tech person that is amazing, could build all these little graphics that pop up with blurbs from other authors and that sort of thing. Cause I can't do any of that. Um, but really staying engaged is, is tough because you want to write and that's all you thought of when you started this thing. And now, but I do feel so fortunate that though there are these platforms where I can thank people that reached out to say, Hey, I read your first book, can't wait for the second one. Uh, that first one really resonated with me. Um, and it allows me to get back and say thank you. And because without people reading the book and without that word of mouth and people sharing it, uh, it would not be the success that it is.

Jack Carr:                      11:09                And it has been over the last year. So I feel sincerely appreciative to, it's everybody that's done that and for me to be able to say thank you. That's what I, uh, I figure I owe that to well, to have everybody to be able to, to get back and say, yeah, I mean, you mean to tell me, man, you got a publishing contract and they're not just doing everything for you. Well, they do certainly do a lot, you know, but, uh, but you kinda gotta get out there today and uh, and be yourself like you couldn't be 20 years ago. You could, you didn't have to. I don't think I'm expected. And people want to engage and they grown up with, they're growing up with that engagement and no matter what it is, and now that it just because it's publishing doesn't mean that, uh, you know, it could be any, it could be any endeavor, it could be any company. Um, but there is a level engagement that now people, people expect. So dive into, hey, if you're new, if you're a new author, it'd be, there'd be the rare author that can still do it from a cabin in the middle of the [inaudible].

Kevin Tumlinson:          12:02                No worries. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very different landscape. I not, most of these tools didn't exist 10 years ago, so, well maybe 10 years ago, not definitely not 20 years ago. You know, it's a different world. It's like you have to be a youtube star and an Instagram star and just be an author.

Jack Carr:                      12:21                No, no. I mean, maybe some people can do, but that, I think that'd be the outlier, uh, that can still get away with that. But, uh, like I said, I do enjoy the engagement with people. I did. It does take a lot out of you though as well. There's a lot going on, but it's better than the alternative, that's for sure.

Kevin Tumlinson:          12:35                Yeah. Well, let's talk about the new book, man. What's the, uh, what's the premise?

Jack Carr:                      12:40                Yeah, so for, it's a continuation of the first one, so it's not a, I mean, but first one's been out for over a year now, so I'm not giving anything away. Uh, and it would make sense to have a continuation with a character that people identify with. And where's the first one was a story of revenge without constraints. The second one is really a story of redemption. And I like to call it a story of violent redemption. We're really all in this transformative journey in life and through really mythology and stories. Um, I, I discovered Joseph Campbell back in, in high school back in 1988 he did a, a series of interviews with bill Moyers on PBS and it was called the power of myth. And you know, it was of course I was very taken with it at the time, uh, because of the connection to star wars and how George Lucas was influenced by Joseph Campbell's work in, uh, in writing star wars.

Jack Carr:                      13:27                So, um, just seeing how a mythologies and the heroes journey across culture, it was very similar even with cultures that hadn't had any contact. Um, there's a typically a reluctant hero. He goes on a journey. He, any emerges, transformed at the end of that journey. So the, uh, the, the, not the trick, but, uh, the challenge becomes doing that per individual story and also over the life of a series to have it kind of fit that model. So that, that's very much in my mind as I'm, as I'm writing, um, cause it's something that I want it to do since I was a little kid. So back then reading the Tom Plant's Clancy's and Nelson to mills and L's and h, j Cornell's and JC, it's all these guys in the 80s who had protagonists with backgrounds that I wanted to have one day in real life. Um, saw those stories of the ones that resonated with me fitting that kind of, that narrative, that hero's journey. So, um, that's something that I've, uh, I've seen, I saw that over at a very, uh, uh, influential point and it's, uh, it's found its way into the pages of, of my novels as well.

Kevin Tumlinson:          14:29                Excellent man. And they're doing well. They're doing well. I mean, you're killing it out there. And it's crazy. I mean, it's so, so crazy, but I think, uh, I think it resonated with the, the

Jack Carr:                      14:39                publisher and with readers because even though it's a 100% fiction, both stories are 100% fiction. Um, the feelings and emotions that the protagonist feels are things that I felt in real life downrange. And I just took emotions and applied them to a completely fictional narrative. And the second one was actually inspired by an event in Iraq in 2006 by an Iraqi officer that I worked with who was a kind of stood head and shoulders above everybody else that we were working with as far as the tactical battlefield leadership. And, uh, we were, had some, we had some pretty interesting times together, uh, ready for the Golden Mohs palming in particular. And then I got word a few years down, um, for move from that, that he had disappeared. And I thought, you know what, I wonder if I, what if I made this a lot more interesting and made that the basis for my second novel.

Jack Carr:                      15:24                So I got to kind of apply some of the real world experience, not just the, uh, the emotions and the feelings this time, but an actual event and then fictionalize it and uh, and take it from there. So it was the right time in a, in the series for this window to come out. So, uh, last time you were on, we talked about how uh, Brad Thor had a little bit of influence on connecting you with the right folks and Oh yeah. And give you a nudge. Are you guys still have API relationship? You still talk? Yeah. Talk to you about all the time. And I love him by like, you have to thank him. And He, uh, I would not be where I am today without him, so I'll never ever forget it. And, uh, yeah, he opened the door to, to New York publishing for me.

Jack Carr:                      16:04                Yeah. When we first talked, she said, ah, you know, hey, if you write a book, I'll let New York know what's coming. And he's like, Hey, I'm not going to help you along the way though. I'm not going to write chapters. I'm not giving you advice. Uh, we, you give me advice on that call. But he's like, just don't call me, uh, for a year. Uh, and they, I said, well, he said, hey, when are you gonna Finish this thing? And I said, a year from today, okay, if you finish it, call me back and I'll let New York know what's coming. So sure enough, a year to the day later, I called them back and said, hey, do you remember me? And I remember you. I said, well, it's done. And then, uh, I'll never forget that. It was so cool. He said, well, is it really done? Is it the best it can possibly be?

Jack Carr:                      16:38                And I said, well, I could probably edit it a little more. And so I took the next four months, edited it, got it as as close, got as good as I could possibly get it and then call them back again and said, okay, this is as good as I can possibly get it. And he said, all right, send it to New York. I'll let them know what's coming. And uh, then it went to Emily Bessler, Emily Besler books, which is part of Atria, Simon and Schuster at the same publisher and editor as Brad has and the same one that been splint as a or had in the same one that Kyle Mills now has. We continued Vinci, Vince Flynn's Mitch rap series, um, and she read it and loved it. And next thing you know, we're off to the races. So I will forever be indebted to Brad for making this next chapter in my life possible.

Jack Carr:                      17:15                Now the important part of that story to me is you had, you had him helping you, that's great, but you still had to go off and do the work. You spent a year and four months making that book a reality. That's right at the time. So I was already at the time, so it was really almost a two year type process I guess. But um, but yeah, it was, uh, it was probably about four months into it when we had that phone call. And that sounds like an interview. I think it was, he wanted to test me and see why I really wanted to write. And uh, of course I wanted to write since I was little kid and my mom was librarians like grew up surrounded by books and uh, grew up reading those, a, those amazing storytellers in the 80s with the that I that I love reading so much in this genre and knew that after the military one day I would write the fright thrillers, right? Attempt to write thrillers just like the guys I was reading in the eighties. So yeah,

Kevin Tumlinson:          18:00                I think the military, um, is, is the perfect training for being an author.

Jack Carr:                      18:07                Well, there are a lot of authors that have come out of that, not just in the, not often, but when you go back and, and look at some of the guys that you read in the seventies and the eighties, even the sixties, you know, a lot of those guys had world war two experience excuse in the sixties fiction era.

Kevin Tumlinson:          18:20                Guys came, came out of the war.

Jack Carr:                      18:23                Those guys came out of the come out of those experiences and then use them going forward. So, uh, it's not, uh, it's definitely not unique in that, uh, in that sense,

Kevin Tumlinson:          18:31                right? No, but you know, you're here in the writing world, you're dodging metaphorical, uh, bullets all the time. Uh, you have to entrench yourself so you get the work done.

Jack Carr:                      18:42                Yeah, it looked like it. I had it like I'm, I used to solve problems aggressively on the battlefield and the tactical sense and now I'm just doing that on the, on the written page. And of course the consequences of screwing up or a lot less dire. And I have a lot more time to think things through and sleep on them and then come back to them and edit them and make them more exciting or come up with a better decision or, or a worse decision depending on what, uh, what I'm writing at the time. But you have time to craft it. You have time to craft the story. You have time to think it through. You have time to edit it. And on the battlefield you don't have that time. That's it's relaxed conflict. That's it. I give it as aggressive problems on. Maybe I should take it, take a breath. But no man, you can, don't, don't change your formula.

Kevin Tumlinson:          19:23                You're a, you're trucking along. Uh, so you are, uh, it's really kind of interesting because last time I talked to you, it was, you were still confident. You still had it. You were still gung ho on all of it. I can definitely tell you there's been an uptick in confidence though, since the last time we chatted.

Jack Carr:                      19:42                It's possible. Yeah. No, maybe I just, uh,

Kevin Tumlinson:          19:45                you are always confident, but I mean,

Jack Carr:                      19:48                I mean it looks like less of a less of a mystery maybe. Um, some of the things over the last year, uh, I guess I've, uh, just being more involved in the industry. Um, so maybe that gives a little bit of confidence, like not, it's not the, the great unknown that it was back then. I, I understand it maybe a little bit more. Uh, and I'm not talking about the writing piece. I'm talking about everything else that surrounds that, that publishing business that you said you had to, I mean, it's, it's fascinating. I love learning new things and I love, uh, you know, looking at things and saying, hey, how can I, uh, how can I do this better? Or how can I, uh, like maximize my time? How can I make the most effective and efficient use of, uh, platforms of, of time, energy and effort? Um, just, just like I did in the seal teams. So I'm taking that, just applying it, I guess I would apply it to whatever I do, but in this case, it's a, it's writing.

Kevin Tumlinson:          20:37                Yeah. Uh, so what, are there any lessons now that you've, you've learned over the past year that are going to change the way you do things going forward?

Jack Carr:                      20:46                You know, I'm, there are, I'm sure there's a lot of, a lot of the smaller lessons, I'm always looking at things and say, okay, how do I, how do I do it better next time? Just like we do it in after action down range. It's a, you know, you get back from that mission and you do an initial hotwash with the guys that were there on target with you and maybe some of the planners and talk about it in a very open and honest, uh, environment. Kind of take the, take the rank off your collar and they, cause you want to make sure that you're taking those lessons and you're gonna do it better next time because people's lives hang in the balance. Um, and then you do a more formal one if an after action that goes out to other people. So it goes up to higher headquarters and it gets disseminated so that the guys that are coming down in range after you or that are training right now to come in right behind you, uh, or a couple, few months down the line, uh, that they're not going to have to relearn those lessons in blood.

Jack Carr:                      21:33                So you're passing on those, those lessons and you're trying to do it as effectively and efficiently as possible. So I think that just goes with anything that I do. I want to look at a performance out there with the bow on the range or whatever it is, and looking at, hey, how do I make a better shot next time? Or how do I, how do I do this better? And I was going to be working on the craft I want to be,

Kevin Tumlinson:          21:51                because this podcast is an after action report for writers.

Jack Carr:                      21:55                Awesome. I love it. That's, it essentially is, yeah. Hopefully people can learn from other people's mistakes and, and uh, you know, and do it better. And, you know, we're all just, uh, yeah, just our experience and hopefully we've take that experience and get a little wisdom out of it. And as we move forward and then pass lessons on to our kids, our families and other people out there that are, that are interested so that they can do it better as a leader in the seal teams. I always wanted my, uh, junior officers or my enlisted guys who were coming up or whatever. I always wanted them to do the job better than I had done it for them. Success to me in that realm anyway, um, was, hey, if they can do it better than, than I did it because I shared a, not just my successes but my failures. Um, then, then that's, then that success. So same thing, same thing with this. I want to look at each and every, uh, everything I do and do it better next time to include writing, to include the books. I want to keep working on my craft and have each one that comes out. B, a I have a little more depth, maybe a little more different perspective. Um, and, uh, just just hone that craft as I move forward.

Kevin Tumlinson:          22:55                Yeah. I, I, you are definitely on that track, man. I, uh, I admire what you're doing. I, I, I love your story though. Everything about what you've done has been very impressive to me. I mean, first of all, I, I'm just, I'll just head over for you, serving your country the way you have and, and you know, protecting my freedoms and the freedoms of those I love, but then to come back and funnel that experience into this passion that I share, uh, that's just flat out amazing.

Jack Carr:                      23:24                Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And I do get asked quite often if I know the odds of this happening and I always answer the same, I say I have no idea. Um, because I never really paid attention to those odds. Yeah. Same thing with CLT. Me like back then when I came in and you know, you can just Google navy seal and have a bunch of information pop up and I'm sure you're it, you know, a lay day by day kind of breakdown of hell week probably out there. I mean, I don't know. I assume that's the case. Um, just cause there's so much information out there. Uh, and I actually, I don't know if that's helpful or not, but uh, you know, you had I, well I didn't spend time thinking about it. I just prepared for it and I am, I thought a seal team was like from the movie, I thought it was like six guys.

Jack Carr:                      24:05                So I was like, so that even shows like, like I thought it be one of these six guys and there's like six of them already at the team and I'm in a class with like 200 people and I think I'm going to be one of these guys. But really, you know the teams are bigger than that. Um, so, but you still had that 80% attrition and that's a, that holds true today and it's very easy to self select out of that program. But I never spent too much time thinking about that. It was always okay, it's difficult. That's one of the reasons that I want to do it. Um, now let's get on with doing it. Uh, so same thing with writing. You know, people, when I told people I wanted to write and I didn't tell too many, too many people, I mean my family and friends knew growing up and then I kind of, you know, didn't really talk about it cause in the seal teams I was just focused on the mission and I was reading a lot of, I kept reading guys, you know, kept Vince Flynn and Daniel Silva and Stephen Hunter and Brad Thor and uh, you know, those here and there.

Jack Carr:                      24:54                But I would also read a ton of nonfiction because that's what I thought I owed the guys, um, that I was taking down range to prepare myself to be the best battlefield leader I could. So reading everything about where we were going in the world, um, lessons learned from people that had been there before. Uh, tactics, whatever. Just getting myself to studying terrorism and insurgencies. Um, uh, in general. And it's just really to where, where we were going. Uh, then all of that Kinda came together. What reading I'd done growing up. Uh, the stuff I continue to read in the military and the thriller Genre, uh, the study of charism, insurgencies and then the experience from my time down range camp all kind of came together at the right time. But the same look I would get from people when I said I wanted to be a seal was the same look I would get from people when I said I wanted to be an author.

Jack Carr:                      25:39                They were like, oh, that's nice. It's Kinda like that little, that's nice. Like you'll grow out of it like that. That's kind of, that's what you get. Um, and it always made me angry when, uh, people would, uh, they kind of look at me like that and say something in a way that, uh, you knew they didn't really mean kind of like, Oh, I'm sure you'll be the one that makes it, you can do it. He'll be the one that makes it. So same thing with writing and if you get that same sort of look from people at same tone when you tell them you want to write. And so I would just start it, you know, completely almost a little pat on the head exactly what it is. Yeah. You're going to be all right, like in the real world. And that always made me go, uh, so same, same look that you got. Vonda I told people I wanted to be a seal. Same One. I told people I wanted to write a in this genre. Um, so I just kinda just counted the odds, didn't pay attention to them and focused everything on, on the doing. Fantastic. Well look, we're, we're out of time, which is sad because I love talking to you, man. I'll do it again. Anytime you want to do it again.

Kevin Tumlinson:          26:44                We'll do this again. You and I could start cohost dash show ready. Uh, so tell everybody where, uh, where they can find you. And then the books coming out on the 30th July 30th,

Jack Carr:                      26:53                July 30th true believer, hits shelves, uh, in all formats, audio, ebook, hardback and uh, the website is official Jack car.com. And on the website I go into a little more deep dive and weapons and gear, that sort of thing. Uh, so people that are interested in more of a deep dive on that can, can go to the website. There's a bunch of other stuff on there as well, uh, and updated very frequently actually. Uh, and then, um, Jack Carr, USA on the social channels and Instagram and Twitter are the ones where it's me. I do have a Facebook, but three platforms was just too much. I knew that was way too much for me. So things do get posted there, but, uh, people reach out, it's a no one will respond. Um, Instagram are the ones that I actually, I respond and that I, I engage with people on. So yeah, that's just how it is.

Kevin Tumlinson:          27:40                I've seen, I seen you on Twitter a lot. I don't, I'm still not instagramming. I mean I am and I'm not, I'm not good at it. I'm going to have to take a page out of your book, but right. All right, well thank you so much for sticking around and chatting with me Jack. I know we had some difficulty at the beginning. No worries. Thanks for having me on.

Kevin Tumlinson:          27:58                Really appreciate it. You got it. Everybody else, thank you for sticking around and hearing us out right now. You're probably hearing the groovy bridge music he made dancing place it will and a stick around. We'll have some words of wisdom on the other side and I will see you there. Hey, how are you doing on money? I know it's a touchy subject, but uh, I got some that may help you out. See, I'm using an app called acorns and it helps me manage some investing. Uh, put some money back, get a little interest. It's Kinda nice to watch my money grow. So I want to share that with you. Go to Kevin tumlinson.com/acorns and you'll get some free money. See you there. You know, I know a lot of times people do little ad spots like those and uh, there maybe they're paid for it or whatever and that's their incentive. But I want to do a

Kevin Tumlinson:          28:55                take a second and just tell you that whole acorns investment thing. I use it, I legitimately use it and I have legitimately made money from it. Um, I in fact for about, I had acorns for like a couple of years, um, and just had it sort of around doing the roundup thing without paying attention to it. I forgot it was there. Uh, when I did finally log back in, I actually had to go and find, I had to have a reset the password cause it couldn't remember the password that I'd use and I couldn't find it. Um, but over the course of like a year and a half to two years, it had a rounded up enough money that there was like four grand in that account. Um, so I started adding to do that. Uh, I put about a, you know, I still round up, but I also do periodic in, uh, just one off investments and, um, sorry I need to clear my throat there and, uh, I have it set to put about, you know, $200 a week in that account.

Kevin Tumlinson:          29:58                Um, and I'm about to up that I'm about to start putting a solid, you know, minimum thousand dollars and probably more each month into that account because it just, they invest all that in and it just grows. It just thought it's on autopilot and they have, um, IRAs you can get and you know, I spending account that you can set up, it's like a debit account, uh, that gives you like extra, uh, roundups or points or whatever. And there's merchants stuff that you can do that, uh, adds money. And of course when, if you go join it, then, uh, you get, I think it's $5 right now, but you get five bucks and I get five bucks. So, um, free money with no contracts or anything. So that all sounds so fake and sponsored. But, uh, I, I, they don't actually, you know, they didn't reach out to me.

Kevin Tumlinson:          30:47                The sponsor, me, I didn't reach out to them. This is an affiliate thing and when to be honest, this is a sponsorship via affiliate. So, um, that's what I'm doing. Full disclosure I guess. Um, but, um, it works, it works so well for me that I, I thought, you know, I want this to be a part of the show and is authors, money is something that's a, it can be a little tricky for us. So, uh, I like the autopilot approach to everything. You may have better investment tools, better financial advisors. Um, you know, I hope you do, but this is a, for folks like me and I don't want to think about it and I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to bother with a portfolio per se. I want to have it. I have other investments, but this is the one that works the best for me, the easiest for me.

Kevin Tumlinson:          31:36                And so, you know, it's up there. I'm gonna get quite a chunk of money and that thing, you know, and my, my personal investment has not been that much, but I would rather throw that money into that then a savings account. Um, although I have a savings account, but I mean I'd rather put my money into that because it does get invested in, it sort of evens things out over time. Uh, so even though the market may fluctuate, um, they have a whole portfolio of things that they invest in. Uh, and to me it's what I call the Lipton tea approach. I found out years ago, friend of mine used to work for Unilever, which owns Lipton tea. And, um, he was telling me that Lipton tea has a process wherein they get tea leaves from a whole bunch of different regions and they blend those into Lipton tea so that if there's ever a problem, there's a blight or you know, a crop shortage, drought, things like that.

Kevin Tumlinson:          32:33                Um, in one region or even multiple regions, the t maintains its consistency, consistent flavor, et cetera. Um, so that's how they prepare for disaster by diversifying. Right. So, uh, this, the, uh, acorns does something very similar and, uh, that it's been very helpful to me. And so I think it can be helpful to you anyway. I did not mean for that to become a testimonial for acorns, but I really do love that serves a little of anything that, that can help me. That doesn't require me to spend loads of time, you know, it doesn't create headaches. Uh, it's just a nice, safe, easy way to, in, you know, increase your money and as authors we need that sort of thing. Um, so that is it. I'm not gonna go into a bunch of stuff. Ah, today we don't, I don't have, I, there's probably plenty of news items, but I've been traveling, I haven't been able to gather stuff, so no news items today.

Kevin Tumlinson:          33:31                Um, but I am a glad you came and I hope I see you at conferences and that sort of thing. And, uh, if you're not on the mailing list, I need to make sure I have the four. I took the form down, so I need to make sure the form is backup, but go over to Wordslinger. podcast.com/podcast will take you directly to the actual podcast page right now. For whatever reason, all my domains are now pointed@thehomepageatkevintomlinson.com. All of them, uh, I don't know what happened there, so I'm investigating. But if you type in Wordslinger, podcast.com/podcast, it'll take you to the podcast for now. Um, but if you just go to that site, you can also click on words slinger podcast in the menu bar up top. Um, so I'm gonna make sure that there is a registration form there to get on the words slinger mailing list.

Kevin Tumlinson:          34:20                We're gonna, I'm going to start pushing out some, uh, some webinars, some author coachings, and, uh, you know, some stuff. Um, some of it will be free and some of it will be paid. Uh, so I want to make sure that I'm covering everybody who has a need. Uh, I'm doing this by the way. Uh, some of this stuff is going to be me and, uh, Roland in Zelle, if you know Roland, uh, he's been on the show before. Um, he is, uh, you know, he's done some, he's an author himself. He's done some fitness, uh, and uh, basically the real food reset and things like that. Uh, very health con, health conscious, uh, weight loss, uh, stuff. Um, I'm completely butchering. And you know what Roland, does he well chosen? I don't fully understand everything I guess. Um, no, actually he's a great guy.

Kevin Tumlinson:          35:10                That works hard. He and his wife have an amazing career, uh, themselves. And um, you know, he approached me about doing this and I'm real excited about it. So we're going to have a webinar coming up soon. I'll give official details and announcements, but I'm also going to be sending that out to that mailing list. So if you're not on it, make sure you pop on over and get on there. I'm gonna make sure I have that, that form set up before this episode goes live. Look at that. Look at me thinking ahead. You should always have email signup forums. I don't know what I'm thinking. This is the thing I preach most. And uh, I made it difficult for people to get on the list. Uh, Eh, just cause of retooling and things. Things get dropped off, whatever. I got lots of excuses. I can't hide behind excuses all day. Um, but you should not, anyway, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you so much for being a part of the Wordslinger podcast. We're, we're, uh, we're at like 36 minutes now, so I'm going to go ahead and wrap us up. Uh, I hope you have a wonderful week ahead, weekend ahead and week ahead. Uh, hope your work is going well. God bless you. And if I can help in any way, of course, reach out, uh, hit me up words on your podcast.com

Kevin Tumlinson:          36:23                the contact button there and, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna start rolling some interesting things out. So stick around, take care of yourself. God bless. We'll see you all next time.

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