The Mysteries of the Ultra Rich with Author Casey Barrett - Ep 213

213 - Casey Barrett.gif

Casey Barrett is a crime novelist, Canadian Olympian, and the co-founder and co-CEO of Imagine Swimming, New York City's largest learn-to-swim school. He is the author of the Shamus-nominated Duck Darley series, set in present-day Manhattan, with the third, THE TOWER OF SONGS, to be released on August 27th. Casey has won three Emmy awards and one Peabody award for his work on NBC's broadcasts of the Olympic Games. He was the author of the popular swimming blog, Cap & Goggles, and was a regular contributor to the Village Voice. His work has also appeared in GQ, Rolling Stone, and Swimming World magazine.

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

book, people, outline, world, work, character, writing, jeffrey epstein, indie author, rich, kid, money, super, duck, casey, road, happened, talking, reading, created

SPEAKERS

Casey Barrett, Wordslinger Announcer, Kevin Tumlinson

Kevin Tumlinson  00:00

Hey slingers, the first official word slinger podcast from the road, and we're going to be talking to Casey Barrett. So stick around for that interview coming up next. Hey, sometimes it's hard to know where to start when you're building and growing your indie author career and that's why I have put together something just for you, me and my partner, Roland Dinsdale and created indie author blueprint, so hop over to indie author blueprint comm start learning about all the ways you can build and grow your own indie author career, but we'll be right there with you all the way. See you there. Indie author, blueprint, calm.

Wordslinger Announcer  00:48

It's the word slinger Podcast, where story matters. build your brand, write your book, redefine who you are. It's all about this story here. What's yours? Now? Here's the guy who invented an optional Kevin Tumlinson. No word slinger was.

Kevin Tumlinson  01:13

Well, I am Kevin Thompson the word slinger and I'm a word slinger from the road right now we are. Karen I have finally pulled, pulled the I guess pulled the string pulled the ripcord. we've, we've exited normal everyday, hanging around a house life and we're out on the road in our tiny little camper, a little 19 foot travel trailer. So we're gonna try this out for a while. If you listened in on the author on the road episode last time number 212. That was broke down some of what we're going to be doing here, and it's been interesting. One of the challenges is internet. So I've still haven't worked all that out yet. We got a few options. Nothing's perfect. already had some glitches, some very frustrating times. Just not sure what we're going to do yet but working on it. So if you have suggestions, by the way, let me know I have tried. I've got multiple hot LTE hotspots. I've got boosters, I've got all kinds of stuff. And so far so far, um, modest luck we'll send out today we're talking to author Casey Barrett. Now he is a crime novelist. He's also a Canadian Olympian and the co founder and co CEO of imagine swimming, which is New York's largest Learn to swim School, which I think I actually read this exact bio in the interview, but I just thought this was really interesting. And this was a great interview. It's been on tap for a while now and thanks to all the pandemics and moving things, and relocating and all the stuff that's been going on, I am only just now getting to it. It's gonna be a lot of these. So, without further ado, let's jump into this interview with Casey Barrett. I think you're gonna enjoy it. Stick around and see what happens on the other side. See you there. Hey, everybody, thank you for tuning in to another word slinger interview. And today we're talking to Casey Barrett. There's a lot I could say you've got an interesting bio man. you've, you've got Canadian, Canadian, that isn't the important part of the sentence. You've got Olympian connections, it may be important to you actually, the Canadian part may be more important in the Olympic part. For all I know, equally important, equally important to our Canadian listeners is very important. So how are you Casey? I'm glad to have you on the show.

Casey Barrett  03:47

Good. Thanks for thanks for having me today.

Kevin Tumlinson  03:49

So you, I do want to kind of talk about, you know, your background history you've got you do a lot of swim related stuff, actually. And that was you're kind of rolling the Olympics, right?

Casey Barrett  04:01

Yeah, I was in the 96 Olympics for the Canadian team. And something has kind of been, for better or worse my identity, one way or another. My whole life My, my company when I'm not writing, it's called imagine swimming. It's a swim school in New York City.

Kevin Tumlinson  04:18

Yeah. And then that's pretty interesting on its own, by the way, because that's the last thing anybody thinks of when they think of New York City is swim schools. Yeah. And it's, I guess that was a

Casey Barrett  04:32

benefit for us that there, there wasn't there's there's I'm not gonna say there wasn't competition, but it was an underserved market. My, my buddy and I larsa launched it in 2002. So we're over 17 years old, which is really surreal. Some of the first kids we ever taught are now in college. So we're, we're feeling the years and the protagonist of your series. Is is a swimmer or whatever you He's He's I described them as a kind of a son of a maid off. He's a fallen rich kid with a father who was Bernie Madoff esque who was very rich and very crooked and ripped off a lot of people and my protagonist duck fell far from say from the low appraisal Lower East Upper East Side to lower east side when he was in high school and that kind of put all his Olympic dreams or presumptions on hold and yeah, I mean any kid that happens any kid you're going to go go sideways and we went sideways and ended up doing time for dealing weed which I find very ironic now that it's more or less substance. But but not so long ago. It wasn't and a lot of people went to jail for that which is Yeah, absurd, but what

Kevin Tumlinson  05:59

I'm sorry, but they But that makes for an interesting kind of surreal twist that you could bring into the book. Have you played around with that at all like the irony of going to jail for something now? Well, the dealing parts still not legal but

Casey Barrett  06:15

yeah, and well, that's the my third book. Like I said, before we started recording. I just got the hardcovers in the mail. Yes. comes out August 27. But my protagonists duck is he I mean, he doesn't admit it to himself but is a heavy drinker full alcoholic in the first two books, and the third book finds him in admitting that he needs to take a break very least from the bottle so he's on quote the week here, and he recognizes the irony that he's a convicted felon for dealing read and now it's it's kind of the thing that saved him. He's He's clean so to speak, but he just smokes weed. And it's it's a little bit funny I've probably I can name half a dozen friends some very close friends who are on quote the week here and for whatever reason it hit the bottle a little too hard and now are are clean and always and have great cleaned up lives but are committed pot smokers. Wow. I'm I'm not my myself. I mean I smoke a little bit but not I wouldn't say I'm on the week or anything like that. But I find it really really fascinating particularly this day and age when it's slowly becoming more and more legalized and more more socially acceptable. That, you know, a substance that not so long ago was sending a lot of people to prison and now it's it's saving a lot of people from much, much worse addictions. Yeah, I

Kevin Tumlinson  08:02

have obviously fascinated, but it's kind of interesting to watch, as people sort of fall over themselves. Sort of, you know, what is? What is your opinion on this? What, you know, what is your practice on this? You know, should it be legal should should it remain illegal? And then, you know, as state start to say, basically open the doors a little, it's interesting to watch people kind of fall all over themselves about it.

Casey Barrett  08:27

Yeah, it is. I mean, I kind of have a liberal libertarian streak over over that stuff, but at the same time, you know, I'm the father, I have an eight year old daughter and I look at things I think a little more realistically as a parent we're not saying you legalize everything and and throw caution to the wind. I mean, I think it's, it's something that should be regulated, regulated, right? I'm on board with that. But uh, it's it's a lot. It's a lot healthier than cigarettes or bourbon. I'll tell you that.

Kevin Tumlinson  08:57

Yeah. Yeah, but don't take my bourbon. So, so your protagonist aside from being a former swimmer and a rich kid and felon and he's very he's very rich character, by the way and I mean, I mean that as layered. He has an interesting job you want to talk a little about the I want to hear like your the origins of your decision or what he does for a living.

Casey Barrett  09:24

Yeah, I'd love to chat about it. Well, he

Casey Barrett  09:28

I mean, in terms of

Casey Barrett  09:32

career I guess it's a very loose word. He's an unlicensed private investigator, although he he bristles at the word private eye in the first book, he, the first private ISIS been passe, which is kind of just a my own private dig at the genre and right, he's right. You know, admittedly, he has a lot of the tropes of the genre, which I like. I mean, I love reading MacBooks and I like the, you know, the loaner hard drinking in these, these are cliches and rather than pretend they're not there. I have some fun addressing them head on, and hopefully tweaking them a little bit. But he because he's a convicted felon, he can't be licensed. So he's an he's an unlicensed finder, he calls himself rather than the private investigator but because of his unique background, once being a rich kid and falling far he's in a little bit of a privileged place in terms of the kind of clients seek him out. That I think it's it's an accurate representation of this kind of unique breed of men having rich people who will only trust their own in a certain respect but also feel comfortable. That duck the protagonist was once a part of their their class and is No longer. So yeah, there's a sense of being able to look down on them a little bit. But also there's a sense of being able to trust him with their dark dirty secrets, because he was, he was once you know, part of that, that privileged class and yeah, these are folks that would be horrified to go to the police. They're not there. These are people that would go official channels. Just Just before we we started talking, like I think million New Yorkers or maybe all over the country. I'm obsessed with this Jeffrey Epstein case. Yeah. Which it feels like the the ultimate law and order SDU is just such an unbelievably horrifying character, but he's, you know, he, it's, maybe you have to live in Manhattan to to believe that these these people exist. And get away with it for so long. Right? So evil it's, it's I mean, I I'm so far down down the rabbit hole reading everything you possibly can on this, this skill bag that I see

Kevin Tumlinson  12:04

that's research though man

12:07

characters

Kevin Tumlinson  12:08

know I'm constantly shocked at, like, I cannot invent characters who can compete with some of the real world people floating around out there like they're you think that there's no possible way that this could be a real human being? Yeah, it has to be somebody who's made up and then you know, there they are traipsing through a courtroom or something.

Casey Barrett  12:31

The New Yorker had this column that came out today. I mean, everyone's weighing in on this guy, but they mention that his his, like, broad strokes of his his bio, just in terms of who he's hung out with President Trump, Clinton, Prince Andrew blah, blah, blah. And the fact he owns a private island Caribbean like, all this stuff, is wouldn't even get past like scripts and no in a scripted cruncher But like it's just too, too perfect. And over the top, it's it defies all belief. But yet this is, this is really this guy's life and this is post conviction. He's registered sex offender for 12 years and yeah,

Kevin Tumlinson  13:13

yeah, I have literally had people criticize characters I created as unrealistic who didn't have half this guy's like quality qualities. Yeah No. So yeah it's a little that's a little it is it's intriguing I mean,

Casey Barrett  13:29

he's doing a favor to to all fiction writers because anytime that anyone lays that on us that that was unbelievable character we can all

13:39

say they're real

Kevin Tumlinson  13:42

These are real people they really exist yeah that's like my wife and I were watching an episode of 2020 and there's this actor who murdered his neighbor who was like an ex Special Forces guy murdered murdered him and then murdered the girl that That he had a kind of relationship with in order to cover it up to make it look like he'd killed the girl and run. Yeah, I'm like, this is straight out of a thriller novel. But this cheesy and the guy was such a cheesy actor. Like, while they were questioning him, he was being dramatic. And

14:17

he's in the world. Yeah, he's in the role.

Kevin Tumlinson  14:19

It's like, wow, people like this actually exists. So is that part of I mean, I know this guy's not but, you know, well, how did you research your character in that? You know, I know part of this because he's a swimmer. So you've got that perspective. Are you a rich kid, too? Did you

Casey Barrett  14:35

know? I mean, I think a big part of it was related to my, my day job, so to speak, running in the Sunday school where I've seen up close and personal the ways of these kind of families in New York City. And by and large, there are I'm not going to criticize our client base and makes our business but uh you know they're by and large they're they're good people but but you do see some some really really twisted ones and in fact the made off children were were clients, they said their kids so Bernie Madoff's grandkids stay with us for a little while and Oh, wow. Yeah, it's a really it's a couldn't be more tragic what happened to both his his boys? I mean, what? commit suicide it's just so so horrible but it really I don't mean to keep going back to made offs because I think like my character is fascinating. Yeah. Somewhat separate from that but it was a huge inspiration I it was like the Jeffrey Epstein case the Madoff case completely obsessed me and I couldn't stop reading about it years ago. And it really informed it really informed the character and just just being a New Yorker for over 20 years. is you know, I I hope that the city itself is his character because it's it's such a part of

16:09

my Yeah, it has

Kevin Tumlinson  16:12

unlike any other city I've been to New York definitely has that energy like you, you know and there's a reason why like every other film says New York is a character in this film you know it is it does play that part like in a unique way that you can't get from, you know, Boise or, or Houston or whatever.

Casey Barrett  16:35

Some kind of living beasts underneath this island a bit added later. I don't know. I don't know what it is. But

Kevin Tumlinson  16:41

now we're talking epic fantasy story now. It's a modern day fantasy story. There's a living creature in New York City. Hey, man. All right. Okay, I haven't written fantasy in years but maybe a dust that off. So okay, you're up to you're up to three books. Now. You just got Got the Hard Carry on to show everybody that hardcover?

Casey Barrett  17:02

yeah got hold it comes out all this is that where it is?

Kevin Tumlinson  17:07

Oh, I talked over it Hold on. Let me be silent you hold it hold up and say something about it and paper. All

Casey Barrett  17:13

right, comes out August 27. The Tower of songs the third book in the duck Darley series. This one focuses on the super towels, these these so called Super towels that are not currently scarring the skyline of Manhattan. They're they're term super tall because they're over 1000 feet and basically the world's biggest money laundering scheme hiding in plain sight possible. They they sit empty, almost all of them are empty and all of them are bought with anonymous LLCs. And I just think it's it's one of the most remarkable things in New York today because it's corruption. So hiding in plain sight. Yeah. So the the book itself starts the the prologue is the guy who lives at the very, very top so no one's ever lived higher. No one's ever lived in a home higher. It looks down on quite literally everything. The guy who lives at the very top is is abducted. He's, he's taken out of his apartment, the very top floor and drugged and taken out the front door in a wheelchair with over said, and that sets the mystery in motion.

Kevin Tumlinson  18:32

All right, that's, that's a fair start. Interesting, by the way that the I've heard, I've heard of the super towels and I've heard of, you know, I've watched some things about the corruption involved. It's really interesting, because there's so much happening behind the scenes there that we just we're just never going to know.

Casey Barrett  18:53

Yeah, and you never actually had this. I was started like reading reaching for books all over the place

Kevin Tumlinson  18:59

as often Do

Casey Barrett  19:00

this one I was really on the flight two days ago I don't read a ton of nonfiction but this one is the sub the sub head is why thieves and crooks now rule the world and how to take it back. But it's essentially gives you the whole history of offshore money and how post World War Two It was created in a very, very small group of bankers in London, who created this this term offshore that set world finances free. And that that really is enabled things like these super balls to go up because you've just layer anonymous LLC anonymous LLC over all different countries. And generally, there's small sovereign states of like, need us in the Caribbean, Jersey off the coast of England. Gibraltar, Gibraltar there's there's a whole bunch of them then they're really just tiny, tiny little, so called countries that accept doing this business in order to stay stay solvent. It's the only way they they can be create an industry for themselves and the industry is a very good one because you facilitate billionaires secret deals. And yeah, the point is that, you know, money can travel freely all over the world it there's no borders, but laws there are borders and it's in that that dichotomy that allows the dirty money in the world which people estimate conservatively as 10% of all the money in the world is black and black market dirty money. I think it's better than that. But it's not a shame you're talking trillions of dollars and it's it moves through the world and is able to be laundered cleanly through this this scheme because it's impossible to prosecute, you can't even track down who actually owns what and I kind of look to the the super tall buildings in Midtown and billionaires, right? As kind of the, the ultimate end end game of this, this reality that what happens when you need to clean hundreds of millions of dollars? Well, you create 1000 thousand foot buildings and you keep them empty. So people got a couch and make sure that that asset is secure when everything else goes to hell, you'll have that asset.

Kevin Tumlinson  21:22

It's really interesting. It's kind of if you think about it, sort of the pre it's, it's like a precursor to Bitcoin. Yeah, currency.

Casey Barrett  21:32

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson  21:34

It's interest is really intriguing. And in fact, I mean it I have this paranoia about cryptocurrency that I just I never could be comfortable enough to invest in it. Right. Yeah. And that's probably a good thing now. But, you know, this whole idea of what money actually is now, you know, it's no longer a physical thing. Money is this abstract and when it became an abstract Very easy to manipulate. Yes. So that's very cool. So that Okay, so you've man, it's, there's all kinds of things that are feeding into your, your book here. So what's the kind of general story? What like how does duck get involved in all this

Casey Barrett  22:18

thread? It's just it wasn't just the inspiration wasn't just outrage looking at these buildings. I'm the kind of the seed or the hook, if you will, of sorry. It came about because I was reading it. It's amazing to me how these stories kind of stopped even even despite these crazy protests. In Hong Kong, these stories have kind of trickled that trickle out of the least the American media of, of these kidnappings on in mainland China where, you know, China or Hong Kong booksellers were getting abducted, because they were selling things that the the party didn't like, and they would just be these guys would just vanish for In untold amount of time, and then they came back, they would say nothing about what happened. they'd stop selling the offensive books. And you know, these are these are booksellers who ultimately aren't all that powerful in the scheme of things, but it does happen with some regularity. in mainland China were one of one of the richest men in China who was famous. He was a billionaire in his 20s. He was a super genius guy, who was tasked with investing the the riches of party members. And he was taken out in the exact same way I described in my book, he was taken out of his private residence into Hong Kong four seasons. drug to take out the front door of the hotel and in a wheelchair and not seen again. And it was in the New York Times, I think, two years ago, February, something like that maybe even three years ago, and if you search it, I've searched it quite a bit. You can find very, very little on it. And this it is remarkable but maybe it shouldn't be so remarkably particularly we're talking about Jeffrey Epstein and the way that the very rich get away with things and they're just there. You can't find stuff about it and that to me, was really the seed of the story combining these the super towels and placing a guy who was a hedge fund billionaire at the very very top and was investor to to even more powerful people and he was taken out his front door and when that happens, the you know, you don't go to the FBI, you don't go to to the NYPD, you probably shouldn't go to an unlicensed prosecutor either. But the the guy's 17 year old daughter she would you know, their family was told do not say anything and I'll be back soon. The the mother and the family accepts that the daughter can Because she's a willful 17 year old, and she seeks out my protagonists duck, she knows of him because a kid at her school, which is the plot of my second book, he he helps save him. So this helps save a kid. So he knows of him in a kind of a big way. And she kind of recklessly seeks them out for lack of anyone else to seek out and convinces him by doing what a rich girl will do and offers him a double amount of money for what seems like a very small amount of work and dunks take us okay, I can I can ask around and make make a few bucks and I will get anywhere. But, you know, these things don't work out. Yeah,

Kevin Tumlinson  25:45

the heart of every good hard boiled detective novel. Yeah. Easy money. Yeah, that's cool then. Now I mean, it's fascinating. I'm definitely picking this up because I am I have to know what happened. I have to know how I was turned down.

Casey Barrett  26:04

Yeah, it was I mean, it was a it was a lot of fun. So right. I, I know there's like a, and they're both, they're both perfectly fine ways to go about it. I know there's kind of a division between outliners or see to the Panthers in terms of writing our genre, and I've definitely exceeded the pancer Yeah. And for the only reason that I wanted to see what happens myself. I just, I would think I would find it boring to outline because I already know what happened. Yeah. I just, you know, you got to be your own first reader in my mind. 10 Yeah, so I love being surprised myself and then going down a completely wrong direction and it makes the rewrites a lot harder and a lot more time consuming. But I guess it's just where you where you want to take on the the baggage of the real work, you can Front Load it and make an outline and then your draft will probably be in pretty good shape, or you can backload it or I do and right have really terrible first draft and end up having to rewrite like crazy.

Kevin Tumlinson  27:04

Yeah, yeah, that's a me anyway. So you did pants this novel too?

Casey Barrett  27:10

Oh yeah always I mean I just maybe if I if I shift to if I were to do like historical novels or something like that add an outline would probably be necessary but writing in the present ready in the present tense and put in the first person I just I don't see how I could do that it would stop being fun I mean I don't I've been a pantser my whole career I can't I've tried outlining the books always fail.

Kevin Tumlinson  27:38

I do that which is not to die I hate I always hate kind of downing on outline because there are just some folks who just cannot write unless they've got that outline. Yeah, and I think those people are amazing because I I don't understand our brains work differently. Yeah.

27:53

I think

Casey Barrett  27:55

I don't I'm sure you're a fan of Dennis Lehane. Yes, I'm but he He had this this quote where he's been a seat of the pants or with every one of his books x except the Shelter Island the one on the mental asylum that one.

Kevin Tumlinson  28:12

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wasn't that like Leonardo?

Casey Barrett  28:17

Yeah, yeah, we started so he said he he's done sim depends on every one of his books except that one because that would have required an outline and he said he absolutely hated writing it behaves the book he said he's happy to successful obviously you're not gonna turn out Martin Scorsese to make a book and movie but he he's he said that like of all his his work he absolutely hates that one because he had such a miserable time writing it because he didn't outline Yeah, may we all be so lucky to write a successful book like that and hate it but

Kevin Tumlinson  28:52

I know what what a what a black guy? Yeah, cuz you're like I hate outlining but that one Book made money

Casey Barrett  29:00

happen to sell millions of copies. And

Casey Barrett  29:06

I find that I find that really funny because, you know, you, you everybody has like their own kind of personal relationship with their, their books like they, they become you know, in a in a cheesy way family to you so it's it's it's funny to look at a guy who's basically

Kevin Tumlinson  29:24

what I'm really I've been finding lately is that so my my my plots are becoming more complex right as I go on and write more thrillers and what I've started doing is writing the whole book and then looping back and adding the complexity parts. So I know how it's gonna end now. So basically I'm outlining I'm just outlining in, in

Casey Barrett  29:49

draft even right, but yeah, it's it's the two aren't really so different. It's kind of a it's it's a distinction that doesn't even need to be made because ultimately if first draft is an outline whether you call it that or not, right? My second second book against nature. I really, I really am proud of the way I ended up fixing it and the way it ended. But the first draft I, I went on a 15,000 word tangent that I guess I had to do to figure out the right way. But when I went back and I gave it a break, and after I finished four shots to kind of give it a couple weeks anyway, before going back with fresh eyes, and the first draft was about 120,000 words, and literally just had to like, delete the final 15,000 words, which was really painful. Because you sweat over that and it's it's hard to beat anyway is always the hardest. Yeah. And to go through it and realize that you just I got it totally wrong.

Kevin Tumlinson  30:57

Yeah, trim fat like I want the fat Yeah, that was the fun part

Casey Barrett  31:01

with with trim and fat here and there but going through and saying the last 5050 pages are terrible

Casey Barrett  31:12

I mean basically to start you know and 100,000 words or so which is still a relatively long book and then having to find a new way it's

Kevin Tumlinson  31:23

makes good bonus material. You can polish that up put it on your website bonus bonus chapters, or

Casey Barrett  31:30

no he was I was I was researching like that bad. Why and that like how to melt body and how like the bones would disintegrate and stuff was for now maybe it'll come back at some point.

Kevin Tumlinson  31:45

It will it will that stuff. And no that's easy. By the way, the melting of body after I've had to look into this. It's really not an easy thing to get rid of the body. It is not man to eliminate a body without a trace. Yeah Almost impossible. Yeah, so yeah, I applied. Yeah. You and I probably have very similar search histories that have us on very similar watch lists.

Casey Barrett  32:09

You're worried worried about that with search history.

Kevin Tumlinson  32:14

Do you know, I occasionally follow Google searches with I'll do a search for phrases like, Hi guys, I'm an author, please don't come after me. I'm just looking something up, you know, just just in case, you know, like, if they go hunting through my search history, they at least find a little note from me.

Casey Barrett  32:38

A recent one you'll like and it's, it's coming in handy. But, uh, speaking of getting rid of bodies in the in the most efficient way, look into pet crematoriums, yeah, go to a shady that because you have to be cremated to right and you can bribe a shady vet to to use the crematoria when when the vets closed

Kevin Tumlinson  33:00

Right. Yeah, I use that exact scenario in a novella I wrote early on. And I've been thinking about bringing it back for later. But yeah, you're right. There's all and there are other ways to Well, now we're not going to get into how to and how to how to dispose of biomedical. Theoretically. Well, I thought I thought about body farms. Okay. Like, if you were to, if you can somehow gain access to a body farm, then you know, basically, you could put this thing out there in plain sight, you know, so yeah, there's a there's a whole lot of but those are well protected. I've discovered and to the point of being in secret locations, so I'm not always but yes, there's some around me. There's a couple a couple in my general area that I've been trying to track down because that's

Casey Barrett  33:55

a Google search for later that Oh, yeah. Put put me son even more, I think Yeah.

Kevin Tumlinson  34:01

Well, I went on Google or I google maps and use sound ID to try to find one.

34:06

Did you find it? I

Kevin Tumlinson  34:08

think I've found it. I think I have found it. And that's so um, this research, right. So we'll see what comes with that. They're very, very protective of those for good reasons. Because they don't want people using them as dumping grounds for bodies. That's exactly

Casey Barrett  34:23

what makes good sense.

Casey Barrett  34:26

probably want to keep those locations. Quiet.

Kevin Tumlinson  34:29

Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, we're at time. I've really enjoyed talking to you, man. I love talking to fellow fellow thriller authors. Yeah, I probably lean more towards thriller authors on this show than I should because but it's my show. I get to do what I want to tell everybody Well, okay, first, when did you the book is coming out in September.

Casey Barrett  34:51

It's well, the it's on the back. It says September but it's weird quirk of publishing where it's the Tuesday before. Yeah. So it's The release date is August 27, which is the last Tuesday in August. Okay, while they do that, but ah,

Kevin Tumlinson  35:07

I think I used to know why they did that, but it did. I don't think the reason makes any sense anymore.

Casey Barrett  35:14

comes out in September, but not really it comes. boggles Yeah,

Kevin Tumlinson  35:18

I think it's a I think it's really kind of a shipping thing to make sure it's in all the storefronts by its release date. I don't remember. But anyway, I'm sure somebody listening knows I got a lot of people who were in the traditional world. No. All right, well, where can people find you and find the book? find everything else about?

Casey Barrett  35:37

Find me at Casey Barrett? books.com. And I'm on Instagram with regularity. I technically have a Facebook and Twitter page but I never ever use it. I'm almost use social media aside from Instagram. Yeah. But I am on email and I'm on my site plenty and Instagram all the time.

Kevin Tumlinson  35:56

Excellent. All right, man. Well, I appreciate you stopping In

36:01

you got it out of a tower salt tower songs.

Kevin Tumlinson  36:05

Brilliant yellow cover. Thank you can't wait to see it. Alright everybody. If you're, if you're still here, I know you're still here. I should have said that way but right now you're probably hearing the groovy bridge music you may dance in place it will stick around. We're going to have a little bit of something, something that after the I'm sure there's an add up. So I'll see you all on the other side. Again, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Casey Barrett and took something useful away from it. Now we are now we're at the end of the show. I got so many, so many sad things to say no, no nothing since we, I hope that you are I want you to continue to tune in by the way. We got a lot going on. There's gonna be a lot going on in the near future. For me, for this show for drafter digital, it's just a bizarre bizarre world. Now, for me a lot is changing. And I'm having to kind of refigure some things out. One of those things is of course, broadcasting from the road. So make sure that you are tuning in because it's bound to be an adventure. I've already had one DVD live just sort of, I kept dropping out of the conversation through the whole thing. So working on resolving that. Anyway, you're gonna hear me talk about these things for a while, so get get ready. We got more stuff coming up. In the near future, though, I got a lot of interviews in the can. That did not have the technical glitches that I am bound to have going forward. So you can rest easy. Make sure you're tuning in, by the way to D to D live you go to DD D to D live That's D letter D, number two, letter D live.com. If you go there, you'll be able to see a countdown for the live shows that we're having. We've been doing a D to D spotlight every day. And we're planning to try to continue doing that through the summer. It's one of those challenges I got I got to deal with. So but me, it's me, Mark Lafave and Dan wood and we've been covering things pretty well, talking to the talking to the influencers of the industry. So you'll get some, the inside scoop on how things are working. And make sure you're checking out indie author, blueprint Comm. That's me and Roland Zell, and we are, we're, we're kind of pulling together all the best stuff we can find online. And we're going to be creating some new materials. It's going to be a lot of stuff available on the site. And Roland is working hard on that right now. I think so. And we That's that's that's the way things are going I my new book, the god resurrection and the latest Dan Kotler thriller, released a couple of weeks ago and has been doing phenomenal. My book coil medallion I put on a special promotion of free promotion and it hit number one on the entire Amazon store for free at least. But entire Amazon store is a big deal no matter what, no matter how you got there. So big things and I'm looking for more coming up. Got an announcement about author email coming soon. So stick around no hints. I'm not gonna let you know anything about that. But you're gonna want to hear what's happening. It's gonna be big news. That is it for this week. And thank you so much for being a part of the words linger podcast specially as we're getting, getting on the road going through this little transition. It's a rough world out there right now. With with not just with COVID but with the the riots. racial tensions are high is a is a scary, difficult time to be in. But this sort of thing in our history has usually hailed some sort of big positive change in there are hopeful things out there look at the SpaceX launch, first time commercially built spacecraft has exited the atmosphere to take human beings to the International Space Station as a first time in history that that's happened. And the first time since 2011, then an American made spacecraft has actually been launched and into, you know, outside of our atmosphere.

Kevin Tumlinson  40:49

So I was thinking about that because there's like, there's been satellites and things maybe it's a manned spacecraft So, but that's exciting stuff. That's hopeful stuff and there's a lot more out there. And I'd like for us to continue focusing on that rather than the scary things, the negative things that can be happening, let's do our part in the world and make the world better. That's the best we can do right now. The riots and the protests and that sort of thing. There's a place for protesting, there's zero place for writing and looting. You know, I don't know your opinion may vary. I've seen a varying I'm shocked at some of the varying opinions on this online, frankly, but my my stance, my firm stance will always be, there's no excuse for violence, and theft, and the just thuggish behavior of the people who are understandably upset and angry, completely justified in their anger, and completely justified in what they're feeling, just not justifying their actions. So that's my stance. Take that for what it is worth practically Nothing So anyway, God bless you take care of yourselves out there if you're in windy, rough areas.

42:07

Stay,

Kevin Tumlinson  42:07

stay home, stay indoors. The best advice I can give you right now. Focus on positive things. I hope this show can be one of those for you. God bless you. Take care. I'll see you

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